Show #217: Back On Track But Still Off the Rails

Apple , ColdFusion Builder , cf.Objective , Adobe , ColdFusion 11 Add comments

This week's discussion includes Dave's impressions of cfObjective and Scotch on the Rocks, open source cars, the latest CF builder update, TweetDeck's issues, smart watches, and IOS8. Also, Dave thinks one of the CF Hour listeners is wrong!

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Show Topic Links:

Tesla wants to share

Update to CFB3 already

CommandBox CFML CLI

Fun with TweetDeck

Good use of smart watches


All your headphone are bought from us

A listener's recap is not 100% accurate




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CFHour intro and outro audio created and provided by vocal talent James Allen:

15 responses to “Show #217: Back On Track But Still Off the Rails”

  1. Sean Corfield Says:
    My thoughts on CFB3 building mobile apps - and, yes, some notes on cfclient too:

    And my thoughts on your show?

    Whilst parts of this episode were entertaining - when you were vaguely on-topic (which was not much!) - overall, it was pretty content-free...
  2. jimmy Says:
    Another episode of "Adobe Man and Anger Boy". My last, I think.
  3. Andy K Says:
    the ability to auto-generate a site with controllers, tests, etc. has been avail. in CF Builder since day one via extensions. In fact many of these auto-build out extensions come already bundled with it (Coldbox, MG, etc.) Or you could easily create your own. Scripting is scripting... whether at command line or with a right-click. I prefer the command line myself so I am enjoying CommandBox, etc. (recipes!)

    One difference though is that these scripts would be somewhat universal for all CFML devs using a universal CLI/package manager and not just to devs using CFB with a proper extension installed.
  4. Scott Stroz Says:
    Andy - There are extensions that will introspect your 'domain classes' (or whatever name you want to give your CFC's that represent yrou objects) and create controllers, with actual usable code for each object?

    I will admit that I do not search for extensions often, but I would like to think that I would have heard something as useful as that.
  5. Sean Corfield Says:
    As Andy points out: the great thing about a CLI is that it works for _everyone_, regardless of which IDE you prefer (and in this regardless of which CFML engine you prefer as well), and once you have a CLI, it's much easier for _every_ IDE to add the features. You can also script this stuff for automation - an increasingly important aspect of the modern developer. If you only know how to do stuff through your IDE, you're not much of a developer in this day and age.

    Also, I believe CommandBox is based on cfdistro which was built by members of the Railo team.
  6. Sean Corfield Says:
    The extensions that Andy is referring to introspect the DB and generate entities, data access objects, gateways, services, controllers etc - very much the "5:1 Syndrome" anti-pattern - although some of them generated fewer of them.
  7. Scott Stroz Says:
    Yea..those I have seen. I am not a big fan.

    I tend to model my application before my database (for new projects), so that is kind of like taking a step backwards at some point in my workflow.
  8. Sean Corfield Says:
    Yeah, designing the object model first and generating the DB to match as "just" a persistence layer is a nice way to go about things. It's part of why I like MongoDB since you can really "ignore" schema design (up to a point) and focus on the application model, and just store objects directly, even with nested data. The "database first" approach seems very old-fashioned these days - and often leads to an unnatural object model (and can lead to anemic domain objects since you end up with entities in memory that exist purely to match the DB instead of focusing on your business logic representation).
  9. Scott Stroz Says:
    Sean - Exactly.

    Even for existing schemas, I will update the object/domain model first, then figure out how to handle those changes in the DB.
  10. Andy K Says:
    Scott - my comment about the auto-generators was not so much that there was an equivalent extension out there for what you're doing in Grails, but just an example that one could be written to do that inside your IDE with a CFB Extension... just as one could do it with a CLI. It was in response to your point-counterpoint with Dave about what a CLI could do that an IDE could not.

    I don't care for 5:1 Anti-pattern introspection extension Sean mentions either and running the same script in a CLI would not make it any more palatable! But in either case, something could likely be written to do what you want... my preference would of course be the CLI.
  11. Adam Cameron Says:
    I've amended my blog to observe you have denied saying what you did:

    I guess we will just have to agree to recall events differently.

    As for the rest of the show: it was a bit content-lite, but I found it pretty entertaining. I do so like Scott's ranting. Cheers lads.

  12. Adam Cameron Says:
    Oops, forgot to mention that I thought the Scott vs Dave regarding CFCLIENT came across like how Christopher Hitchens (rather than Bill Nye) vs Ken Ham regarding intelligent design might pan out ;-)

  13. Andy K Says:
    OT: Hitch is sorely missed... if you haven't read Hitch-22 I strongly recommend it!
  14. Raymond Camden Says:
    Just to be picky, Andy, the ability to scaffold in CFB really came in v2, not v1. v1 had extensions, but v2 added support for associating them to project creation.

    Some of the old extensions do indeed follow the 5:1 anti-pattern, but that's a fault of the extension itself, not the feature. Hopefully with CFB3 being much better we will see more folks writing extensions.

    Oh - and specifically for scaffolding, you can skip extensions altogether in 3.0 and just use a template.
  15. Andy K Says:
    Yup, thx Ray.

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