Show #209 - Underjoyed and Overwhelmed. Strike that. Reverse it.

Railo , Adobe , ColdFusion 11 , Angular JS Add comments

In this week's show Dave and Scott discuss Adobe's latest Beta release of CF and its features. Scott talks about how his golf league app is posessed and we find out just how Javascript saved the day!

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ColdFusion 11 Beta Released

Angular JS Tutorial

Wrong is not the new right

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15 responses to “Show #209 - Underjoyed and Overwhelmed. Strike that. Reverse it. ”

  1. Matt Gifford Says:
    Hey guys. Great show.

    I just wanted to pipe in about the mobile abilities with cfclient. You know I was sitting on the fence about the language addition over the last year or so, but I have to say the Beta release has impressed me. I'm working on some mobile apps using cfclient now and the code will be released to (hopefully) help others see what is going on under the hood or at the very least how it can be used.

    I dont necessarily agree that cfclient is the new cfpod or cflayout. I think I used to but that has changed. Whilst it's not a solution for everyone what it can do is does well and does save time. I still believe that developers need to have a firm understanding on the API they are implementing (PhoneGap's connection API for example) but if cfclient in Splendor helps you streamline the code and implement it in an alternative way I dont see that as a big issue.
  2. Scott Stroz Says:
    I am all for making mobile development easier. But I feel that role would be better suited to Thunder than to Splendor.
  3. RogerTheGeek Says:
    I like the idea of referring to it as a dot release. There were many other releases that were similar.
    I'll start paying more attention to things like CF 11 when my corporate datacenter moves off of CF8. :(
  4. Abram Says:
    I was looking forward to the new webkit PDF rendering. Too bad they screwed up on that and made it a Windows only feature (though was told early on that it would be available on all platforms). That was the only thing keeping my shop on ACF, now I would have to really dig to justify not moving to Railo - both to management and myself.

    As for the mobile stuff. Sure, it may work - until it doesn't. Then what do you do? upgrade to Dazzle? Nah. The client-side cfquery looks cool on the surface, but I'd rather use something like couchbase lite or breeze.js to handle client-side db queries.
  5. Scott Stroz Says:
    I can sum up everything I dislike about cfcleint in one single line of code (provided by Adobe, no less)

    <cfset $("##addDlg").modal() >

    That is just an abomination. The fact that this is what Adobe came up with as the best way to call JS from CF boggles my mind - but not as much as the notion of calling JS from CF to begin with.
  6. Phillip Senn Says:
    So I heard the comment about "value what you say" and I thought "Hey! I value what they say!" And then I thought I wanted to start a meme like "we need more Snow White on cfhour" or something like that. So that gave me an idea. Here's a proposal for Mrs. Dave Ferguson: I would like her to review the website I just put together for my sister-in-law. It's I would really value what she has to say about it.
    Maybe she could do a review of different listener's websites each episode.
    It could range from the way she talks to school children "Gee Johnny, that's a really lovely website" to how she talks to Dave normally.
  7. Sean Corfield Says:
    Oh dear god! This is one of the funniest episodes you guys have published for years!! You've almost redeemed yourselves for the asinine attack on Adam Cameron's blog post.

    It was WONDERFUL to hear Scott rant and rage about how underwhelming the CF11 Beta is and Dave rather desperately trying to defend Adobe and talk up the release... and even Dave didn't manage to sound convinced about it all.

    I hadn't read the release notes far enough to notice how poor the bug fix descriptions were. Scott's right: you can't tell what many of those bug fixes are for just from their user-supplied titles.

    I didn't realize websockets in CF10 didn't support SSL. Scott's right, adding that in CF11 is just finishing something that was half-baked before.

    The HTML to PDF conversion being Windows only is a ridiculous position to be in at this stage in the product's evolution: have Adobe learned nothing about CF developers on Mac OS X and the outcry and all those Linux production servers?

    And cfclient... well, it's exactly as bad as many of felt it would be based on early previews. Sure, it's nice that Thunder can simplify packaging a mobile app. Scott's absolutely right that this should not be anything to do with a CFML server. Scott's also right about tag-based code in cfclient - so dumb!

    So what's good? Member functions (already in Railo), Elvis operator (already in Railo), tags-as-script (already in Railo). Definitely a point release based on those. Don't get me wrong: they're terrific language enhancements, but we've been asking for this stuff for YEARS!

    Oh, and Scott, you're wrong about ?: in Groovy. There's a ?. operator in Groovy for the case Adam was asking about, for exactly the reason he's saying ?: is implemented incorrectly in CFML.

    And, yeah, AngularJS is da bomb :)
  8. Scott Stroz Says:
    Sean - Yes, it seems I was confusion the 'Elvis operator' with the 'safe navigation' operator.

    After refreshing my memory on this, it seems Adobe has implemented the functionality of both in the 'Elvis operator'
  9. Sean Corfield Says:
    Yeah, as had Railo. And Railo justified it because isNull( a.nonExist ) is true even tho' a.nonExist throws an exception rather than returning null - and they wanted ?: to work "like" isNull(). I think that's a bogus argument: a.nonExist should throw an exception, regardless of context (well, except in isDefined("a.nonExist") but that's a string, not a struct navigation). Despite CFML's insistence to the contrary, null != non-existent.

    If you're going to throw in concepts and operators from other languages, you need to make them match the behavior of those other languages to an appropriate degree, instead of making up your own rules!
  10. Jim Priest Says:
    CliffsNotes version: CF11... "A big bowl of yawn."

  11. Adam Cameron Says:
    Great podcast today guys. I agree with what Sean said on Twitter that this is perhaps the best one you've done.

    I too was gobsmacked by the amateurishness (?) of the release notes for CF10.5b (chuckle) whether it's a final release or not, it's still a public-faced, Adobe-branded doc, and whoever composed it should be given a ballocking.

    I also agree it's not reasonable to consider SSL support in web sockets to be a "v2.0" *feature*. It was a bugfix of a gratuitous omission from the first iteration. How could they have NOT implemented it with SSL in the first place?! This came up pretty much as soon as CF10 was released, if not during the pre-release phase. This just shows how disconnected from web dev the Adobe ColdFusion team are.

    I was gonna say "you misread what I said about the null coalescing operator", but seems you're back on track with that.

    Looking forward to hearing more about your experiences with Railo, Scott. I wonder if Dave will ever shake off the Adobe shackles he seems so comfortable wearing and give it a go ;-)

    Must find time to get myself up to at least level 3 on the Angular tutorials...

    Good work lads. I hope this sets the precedent for future podcasts.

  12. Mary Jo Says:
    Definitely agree AngularJS is the bomb! After Sharon DiOrio's presentations at NCDEVCON, we immediately went to work on redoing our client's big ecommerce site to use it for their catalog searching...still in the works but is going to probably be one of our most popular updates ever for them.

    Agree with Sean that this was a pretty funny episode. Loved the comments on the bug fix descriptions being from the bugbase, yeah those are pretty awesome. Now you just need to do a rant on the topic I got started again over on Adam's blog...this ridiculous position of Adobe on not fixing bugs due to "backwards compatibility". I am betting even Dave will have trouble defending Adobe on this one, at least in regards to fixing isValid().
  13. Jared Smith Says:
    Great podcast guys! I agree this has got to be one of the best episodes yet! First off angular is amazing! I've been using it and emberjs for a while now and love both of them!

    As for Adobe, it feels like coldfusion's full versions and features are half hazardly thrown together. They work on these things for years, but seem to produce half baked features and neglect to include functionality that should be considered basic plumbing. So far I would feel cheated spending money on the next release of CF. Scott hit the nail on the head, it feels like a dot release. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad adobe is making improvements but some of it seems too little too late.

    I agree, Adam, they seem disconnected from the web dev community. Adobe is kinda like a parent who walks up to their kids and says "I'm bomb fly stupid and funky fresh. yah dig?" nice try but you're a few years late.

    I like the idea of cfclient because it seems cool and new, but I feel the meshing of client side and server side is not exactly something new for Adobe, and it has not worked out well in past implementations. so why is this different? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting different results.

    Keep up the good work Scott and Dave! I hope to listen to more episodes as good as this one was!
  14. Richard Hughes Says:
    As a beta tester, I was underwhelmed. I really appreciate the member functions.

    I am excited that I do not have to remember if it I have to do aryThing = arrayAppend( aryThing, newValue ); or if I can just use the function without assignment.
  15. Phillip Senn Says:

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