Show #161 - Questions and falling from space

ColdFusion 10 , jQuery Add comments

In this show, Dave and Scott talk about Stackoverflow and more odd rules on what a question really is. They also discuss the latest release of JQuery UI and if it has fallen behind the times.. They also recap a conversation on Twitter about innovation. They also comment in some comments from previous shows. Also discuss the epic awesomeness that is Felix Baumgartner and his skydive from the edge of space.


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Red Bull Stratos - Felix Baumgartner

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33 responses to “Show #161 - Questions and falling from space ”

  1. Sean Corfield Says:
    Thanx for addressing the comments from the previous show. I still think you were over the top in the way you ripped into Faisal - you were pretty insulting in personal ways, rather than just attacking what he said (which, ironically, it sounds like you even agree with, in part).

    The innovation thread on Twitter just proves once again what a terrible medium Twitter is for having a reasoned discussion!

    My initial tweet was spurred by listening to Rakshith's interview where he talked about "trends that would define the web" over the "next few years", in the context of why Adobe was now looking at adding features to support those trends in future versions of ColdFusion. Later in the "conversation" Rakshith claimed Adobe were innovators (although he grumbled about me muddying the waters by talking about innovation first).

    All the things Rakshith mentioned have been happening on the web for _years_ and lots of other technologies have already embraced them. That they are being marketed as "future" trends defining future releases of ColdFusion just underscores how far behind other technologies ColdFusion has fallen these days :(

    What Adobe should do is admit that ColdFusion has fallen behind and work like crazy to bring the language up to date and adopt the modular approach that other technologies have generally taken so that the core can evolve faster and the libraries can evolve separately, at their own pace - faster or slower - without impacting "product releases". The open source languages - which is pretty much everything except maybe C# - have all adopted a "core language + third party library ecosystem" approach and that's why they've been killing CFML over the years. That ecosystem can move very fast in response to trends, in ways a core language cannot. Even C# doesn't attempt CFML's "let's throw in everything including the kitchen sink" approach, so it too follows the OSS model more than ColdFusion!

    So, yes, we agree on modularization (although I understand their reasons for resisting it for so long, especially having worked there). And, under Adam, there was an admission that ColdFusion had lost its RAD crown and had been surpassed - and a recognition that ColdFusion needed to learn from other technologies (for all that Adam and I clashed on many issues, we also shared several core beliefs about CFML).

    If Adobe move to yearly releases and move to a modular system, maybe CFML will catch up to other technologies. That will take a couple of years / couple of releases at the very least.

    The question we have to ask tho' is: by that time, will CFML still be relevant enough to matter? In other words, is Adobe's adoption of faster releases, more frequent updates / bug fixes, and modular deliver going to be enough to reverse the decline?

    The roadmap is nice - and the assertion of continuing support a decade into the year is reassuring (and necessary after The Railo Company promised a decade of support at cf.Objective() on the back of five large Adobe / CFML partners backing Railo as investment partners). What I'd really like to hear tho' is what the Adobe team really think is ColdFusion's _future_... not just a year or two down the line, but as an evolving technology over the next five to ten years. Do they see it as a proprietary glue for integration? As a standalone language with continued open source engine competition? As some fundamental server side pillar of Adobe's multimedia plans?

    I'm not saying Railo or OpenBD have that vision (Railo certainly is more reactive to Adobe's changes than OpenBD - although Railo has already implemented many innovative features as well as providing compatibility). The open source engines almost by definition have to think of CFML as a standalone language.

    But is it "just" a language in Adobe's mind? How do they see it competing with other technologies in the long term?
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